Status update + input needed

[Nat]

It's been a few days, so let me fill everyone in on what's up. Lyn and I have been talking to a programmer about the project, and he's going to take a look and see if he's interested. If so, we'll start looking at how to prepare for a Kickstarter campaign, but that's not solidified yet.

Instead I want to talk to you guys about something even further away. In the relatively near future, we need to try and decide on the business model for the eventual relaunched game. The bottom line here is that the game has to make money, but I don't want to do anything to upset the balance of the game or the players. There are two ideas we're currently kicking around, and feedback or other suggestions would be helpful.

The first is a model similar to what Randy used in the past, where players would buy subscriptions to the game for a set length of time. However, unlike in the past, there would not be a full free version offered as an alternative. We'd give everyone who signed up some time - two weeks, let's say - of free play, after which they'd be forced to subscribe to continue. As a consequence, this would offer a more unified play experience: in the past the free version was substantially different - lacking the fluctuating kingdom, events, and so forth - whereas this would offer an exact sample of whatever the final product becomes.

The second is what's known as a "freemium" model. Games that operate with this plan are completely free to play, except for when they're not. Rather than charging to play, this would allow players to use real-world money to purchase in-game things. The disadvantage is that this walks a very fine line, and it's very difficult to create freemium content that players will want to buy that won't give them a major advantage over non-paying players.

So, there's the news. What say you?

[Neo Pain]

Free to play. This is by far becoming one of the most popular concepts in gaming now. League of Legends is the BIGGEST online game... bigger than WoW because it is free to play. They make their money on non game impacting sales. They (and I) agree that if you can use money to buy things it shouldn't be to give yourself an advantage over those who cannot afford to buy shinies. Even as I say that i could see selling small packs of cards with maybe up to uncommon rarity (like MtG). Cards that would help build a deck but not be game changers in themselves.  League of Legends sale the new champions and different skins that are available for all the champions. But if you are like me and are monetarily challenged then you can earn in game "money" to buy champions. And even if you don't buy them all you still get opportunities to play them thanks to there being a "free" rotation of the champions you can use. Sooner or later you can play everyone. 

There is another preemium model out there where they sell the game for a small fee (usually on an app... $.99-$3.99) with free updates etc but also offers other paid for services. Pocket God is done like this. And it is one of the most popular games out there now.

I think the biggest problem we will have this go around will be competing in an instant gratification world. Many of these games nowadays are short quick and simple. And you either win or lose in that same quick manner. As we all know SW often is not a quick process. However just winning was enough for most of us. Or having a great match. And then the victory mig was always nice as well.  We have to make sure that win or lose the game will keep people's attention.  Possibly offer an in game currency that you receive. A lot on win... half as much with a loss. That way people with not as much money can still purchase in game content... just slower. Biggest thing is making sure to make it so money bought services has little impact the played game... i.e. he who has the most money can't just just buy the best deck.

But another thing is content would have to be put out on a regular basis. To keep the game fresh and evolving. In a way almost like M:tG. Up population sizes and see where we go. That was always one of the things I enjoyed doing... creating a deck out of all the chaos.

[Persephone]

I like the idea of doing something similar to League of Legends, like Neo was talking about. He's been playing that game for 2-3 years and never really seemed to get tired of it (to my frequent dismay).

I've also thought that a good idea would be do the game much like it used to be, but instead of the free side population being fixed, change the options every so often. I really think that if you allow people to play for free, they'll eventually want to buy a membership. But people who can't afford membership shouldn't be basically denied the chance to play.

[Bruno]

I know there is still much needed for the game to return.  But does anyone have a tentative time frame on when the game will be up and running?  I love the game and would be willing to pay more to play.

[TwistedMe]

I've been rolling this around in my head for a week now and here's what is making the most noise...
I keep seeing this game as a Facebook game.  I've been playing Facebook games for several years now.  Companies such as Zynga or Kixeye are making a killing.  A Killing! 
I see SpiritWars as a Facebook game.  People log on and play for free.  The game is free... free.... free... UNLESS, you want to speed things up... and apparently, a LOT of people do!  Paying for "time" seems to be extremely popular and I don't see why the concept can't be applied to SW...
SO, everyone downloads the game and starts playing... as you play, you earn rating points... like before... however, now these rating points have an effect on your spirits.  Everyone STARTS with the same deck... like the old Freebie deck.  As your rating improves, your available spirits increase... Perhaps... 10 different levels of available spirits... With each level you gain, you have more spirits to use... and each level offers more valuable spirits. 
You can spend HOURS... DAYS... WEEKS... MONTHS... even YEARS playing the game for FREE... gaining (and losing) rating points as you go... Increasing your level as you proceed... increasing the available spirits as you proceed...
OR...
You can BUY your way up the rankings!  By purchasing "rating points", you automatically have access to the higher level spirits.  With this type of model, RATING POINTS would be the "currency" of the game... You can WIN them, or you can buy them.  You can spend 6 months gaining enough points (playing 10-20 games a day) to reach level... 5 (and accessing much better spirits than a level 1).. OR you can purchase rating points and bounce yourself up to level 5 in minutes.  OR spend MORE and max out to level 10.  Gaining these rating points, while awesome at first, will depend on your ability to play the game... because you can LOSE rating points!  The number of rating points you lose would depend on your opponent.  THe LOWER the level of your opponent, the MORE points you lose... the HIGHER the level of your opponent... the FEWER the points lost....
Of course, if a Level 8 player falls below the required points needed for level 8, they would become level 7 (and lose access to the Level 8 spirits).  They could work hard to get the points back and regain their previous rank.... or they could purchase them...
Regardless, the important thing is, anyone can achieve a higher level.... through HOURS of gameplay (free)... or through paying money, money. money... instantly.  The ADVANTAGE to playing your way up, is understanding your spirits... seeing different strategies as you go.... learning how and when and why to use certain spirits... so that when you start playing with the "big boys" (or girls), you are prepared for what is coming!  If you BUY your way up the ladder... you might have the same spirits as the person who slaved at their keyboard for hours on end, but you will NOT have the experience... you will not have the time designing endless decks of various cards... with constantly changing spirits... you would be like... a 16-year old kid sitting in a Ferrari.... racing a seasoned 35-year old veteran street racer in the same car.... Sure..... the kid MIGHT win, but I'd put my money on the Vet any day!
So.... to recap....
Everyone starts the game at the same Level.  Level 1.  Everyone has access to the Level 1 spirits.  These are the basic spirits... like the old free version.  PLENTY of spirits to play the game in a multitude of ways!
As you progress, you gain rating points.  More points if you play (and win) against a higher level, less points if you beat someone lower ranked.  You would lose points in a similar fashion.
As you gain points, you gain Levels.  Each level "unlocks" new spirits for your deck.  I'm not even going to try to list spirits, but those who know the game understand what I'm talking about.  THe higher your level, the better the spirits you unlock.  THe number of spirits you unlock should fluctuate with the levels.... Level 2 unlocks, say, 10 new spirits.  Level 3 might unlock 20 new spirits.  Level 6 might just be MORE spirits you already unlocked... Level 8 might only be ONE new spirits... but what a sweet spirit it would be... Each level could have a mix of spirits.. or maybe some of the levels are SPECIFIC types of spirits (ie. all Woodland).  The less desirable would come at the lower levels, the more desirable at the higher levels.
You gain levels by competing against another player.... or through tournaments...
OR you can BUY your rating points! 
The important thing is, each player should have the SAME opportunity to have the SAME spirits.  Either by playing for them, or buying them. 
Of course, you could ALSO have "special" spirits that can only be WON in a tournament.... OR... after a period of time... they are available for purchase!  Once you WIN or BUY the "specials" you can NOT lose them.  THey are yours forever... regardless of whether you lose levels (and access to "leveled" spirits). 
Migrations?  Absolutely!  Events?  Sure!  There is NO reason why the same type of events should not affect decks in the same way as before!  Events affect low levels and high levels in the same way.... the overall AFFECT, however, should be determined by your level.... GOOD events are even BETTER for higher levels... BAD events have a SMALLER impact on LOWER levels.... 
After playing Battle Pirates on Facebook for 2 years (Kixeye), I have achieved a VERY high status level.  THere are not many players who can compete with me... EXCEPT the ones who have spent a GREAT deal of money (or even more time).  There are people who have spend THOUSANDS of dollars to get to where I am.  It took me 2 years.  It took them 10 minutes.  DO I feel bad about that?  NO!  Not at all!  If it wasn't for people like them, I wouldn't have the game to pay!  I just find it more.... satisfying.... to EARN my rank.  People with larger disposable incomes can spend their money how they want!  I just happen to believe they will want to spend it on SpiritWars... especially if they want to compete with the heavy hitters...
Which of course, leads us back to my original though... SpiritWars needs to be a Facebook game.  For this model to succeed, the most important thing is a LARGE player base.  Not hundreds of players.  That won't do.  Not thousands of players.  THink big.  Facebook opens the door to HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS... or even MILLIONS of players!  If ONE MILLION people register to play SpiritWars... what percentage of people will want to pay to unlock better spirits?  Get that number in your head and multiply it by $20... or $50... or $100 dollars... I'm telling you... there is a HUGE potential for ENORMOUS amounts of money to be made...
It's difficult for a lot of people to commit to a "monthly" charge.  Some months are better than others... some months are just BUSY and less time is available to play.... some months are filled with vacation time... some months see a birth of a child or the loss of a loved one... regardless, committing to a monthly fee is just inconvenient and no longer something people want to do!  Let people play at their own pace!  Some will want to earn it by playing every night for hours on end.  Some will want instant gratification and access to better spirits overnight! 
That's my 2 cents... don't spend it all in one place!  Keep it free... and make a ton of money!
People will PAY to save TIME! 

[King Leshrac]

Facebook could work.  I still think trading has to be worked in one way or another to maximize fun/profit.

[Xaxyx]

Before you can choose between business models -- indeed, before you can even *define* them -- you must first necessarily define the game model.  The two concepts are intimately intertwined.

For example, if memory serves, you currently have two game models defined (I'll use the term "league" for ease of reference, though that may turn out to not be the most readily applicable term):

- Free to play league:  No ratings.  No trading.  No fatalities.  No victory migrations.  No activity migrations.  No population events.  Basically, a static, neutral environment.
- Paid league:  Ratings system.  Trading enabled.  Fatalities enabled.  Victory migrations.  Activity migrations.  Population events.  A dynamic environment, where players' ratings, as well as their kingdoms, are in a constant state of flux.

I would purport that this list of available league types is insufficient if it's your intention to attract a larger and more varying customer base.  For example, I'm quite confident that there are a significant number of potential players who would balk at the notion that they may pay money to play your game and earn spirits only to have those spirits taken away from them, either by the game or by either players.  Indeed, some players might object to the existence of any sort of kingdom alterations at all, preferring an environment in which all players used the same kingdom at all times, but with ratings enabled -- a level playing field, if you will.  And so forth.

Thus I propose that you consider widening your approach.  Consider having a variety of league types, running at varying intervals, configured with varying rule sets, perhaps even charging for differing costs depending on what's being offered.  Title them appropriately, make it extremely clear what's enabled and what's disabled for each league and how each feature functions, and charge for membership in each league separately.  Then, players can pick and choose which leagues are for them.

Examples of leagues for your consideration:

- Level Playing Field:  Limited duration, rated league.  All players start with identical kingdoms of spirits; these kingdoms never vary from one another under any circumstances.  (There could be population events, but these would need to be identical for all players.)

- No Trade League:  Limited duration, rated league.  Victory and activity migrations enabled.  Fatalities enabled.  Trading NOT enabled.  Thus, players' kingdom makeups are solely dependent upon individual performance, with a healthy dash of luck.

- Trade Only League:  Limited duration, rated league.  Migrations and fatalities NOT enabled.  Trading enabled.  Herein, players' kingdom makeups are determined solely by trade.  (More interesting might be to restrict trading to only the first week of play.)

From here, I'm sure you can imagine all sorts of fun variants for leagues.  A one week long "elimination league": where after N losses, players are eliminated; victory migrations are significantly increased; and the winner, rather than being determined by rating, would be the player with the largest kingdom at the end of the week.  A one day long "random league": where each game, rather than using decks built from kingdoms, players are instead assigned a random assortment of spirits to play with, perhaps leveraging many of the new spirits of a recent or upcoming expansion.  And so forth.

Each league -- or "event", if short enough in duration -- can cost a fee.  From there, the financial model is readily extrapolated.  Sell credits and spend credits on league memberships and event participations.  Or charge directly.  Or both.  But before you can establish a sound and practical business model, I would implore you to give some serious thought to your game model.  They are inseparable; and you have a tremendous opportunity here to accommodate a much greater berth of potential customers.

[Psyclone]

Hello everyone, not sure if any of you remember me, my SW Members name was Kevin (not to be confused with kevincscott). 

I used to play SpiritWars a lot starting back in the "Trade" days in the late 1990's.  I was an annual subscriber a few hours after playing my first game and member up until the end.  I was 3rd on the list of most games played with over 5000 games played.

I'm excited to hear of the possible revival of SpiritWars.  To this day, it is still my favorite game I have ever played.  So far, I agree and shared the same opinions of what most of you have said.  With that being said, I definitely think there are a few things that might need to be changed to be successful in this day and age that I will go into shortly.

I'VE PLAYED A LOT OF CCG/TCG's ON THE INTERNET AND ALMOST ALL OF WHAT I MENTION/SUGGEST HERE IS THE SAME TYPE OF MODEL USED IN MOST OF THE SUCCESSFUL ONLINE CCG's.

BUSINESS MODEL

I think the "Freemium" model is the way to go and sell card packs as well as other enhancements (such as extra deck slots).  I don't think subscriptions are very popular and I think they're a hard sell to a lot of people.  Subscriptions may be beneficial to players who are hardcore and have a lot of free time (play a lot of games each month/year), but I think you're going to turn away people with limited playing time or odd/seasonal schedules who won't feel like they're getting their money's worth.

A "freemium" model will generate a larger player base, which (of course) is extremely important.  I've played a lot of other games, including League of Legends, Urban Rivals, TheFarWilds, Tyrant, etc.   They are all free-to-play, but offer bonuses/perks to paying customers.  As others have mentioned, I think the most important thing to be careful of though is to make sure that there isn't an enormous advantage to paying customers vs. free customers, but more of a convenience advantage.  Games that offer huge advantages to paying customers are commonly referred to as "Pay-to-Win" and usually die a quick death because of it.

I would definitely stay away from Facebook.  I think it could be very beneficial to have links/likes/updates to Facebook and a SpiritWars facebook page/fansite, but I don't think running the game on Facebook is a good idea for several reasons.  I think SpiritWars would be better off as a stand-alone or on a gaming network like Steam/Kongregate/etc (I don't know a lot about Kongregate, but I've played a couple different games on there from time to time).

SPIRITWARS IN 2013 AND BEYOND

I think there are a few things that turned players away from SpiritWars that might need to be addressed to be successful nowadays.  I think most people loved the concept and the game itself, but for some reason or another didn't get hooked/addicted and ended up leaving.  I will expand upon these as well after the list...


• Games were too slow or took too long
   
  
  I believe SpiritWars falls into the CCG (Collectible Card Game) genre and that will probably be the largest source of players that will eventually become paying customers.  Most CCG's don't have a map, just a generic game board and the games usually take anywhere from 3-15 minutes to play.  SpiritWars adds the extra element and strategy of a combat map, which I believe it what makes it so great.  I think we will need to cut down game times to the 10-15 minute range or risk losing a lot of these players. 
  
  I remember Randy mentioning or advertising that the average game time was 20-25 minutes. Some very competitive games took 40+ minutes and sometimes your opponent was just incredibly slow or afk, so even short games (not a lot of rounds) could take a long time.  I think the game times will have to be drastically reduced to keep a lot of players interested.  I think the biggest problem was sometimes having people take 1-2 minutes just to perform a phase because they were "thinking".  I "think" sometimes they were just afk tbh. 
   
  Big lulls (pauses in activity while waiting on opponent) were definitely boring and took away from the enjoyment of the game.  There were definitely times where I was frustrated at how slow my opponent was.  I mean, c'mon, how much time is required in the Movement Phase of round 7 when you only have 3 spirits to move?  I can't tell you how many times (it was an insanely high frequency) I had to send a message to my opponent asking "are you still there?".
  
  *** I think if you want to run tournaments and other events, you're going to need to speed the games up as well to make them run a lot smoother.  Nothing was worse than winning a game in your tournament and then having to wait 20 minutes for an opponent because your next opponent was still 1-2 games behind.
   
  
• Players didn't like losing spirits (members version issue)
   
  
  I think a majority of players (especially paying players) would be upset if they lost their cards permanently, especially if they spent money on the game.
  
  
• Second turn advantage (imbalanced)
  
  
  Let's be honest, there was a HUUUGE advantage to playing 2nd (Gold).  This was a definite turn-off for a lot of people because it had too much of an impact on who won the game. The were definitely some good Silver decks (player 1), but you had to have a lot of experience and the right spirits (cards) to pull it off.

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[Psyclone]

GENERATING INCOME/REVENUE

Require players to buy "SpiritWars currency" (credits) to purchase items/enhancements in-game.  This is how almost every online CCG I've seen and played works now.  I'll keep it simple and pretend a base of 10 Credits = $1 US.  Offer bonus credits for larger purchases, e.g. $5 = 50 Credits, $10 = 105 Credits (5% bonus), $20 = 220 Credits (10% bonus), $35 = 400 Credits (14% bonus), $50 = 600 Credits (20% bonus), $100 = 1300 Credits (30% bonus).
 

• Card Packs
   
I think the most popular and successful model that I've seen for CCG's are offering packs of cards (spirits) for sale for either Credits (purchased with real currency) or in-game psuedo-money (I'll refer to it as "gold" from here on out to keep things simple).  Card packs aren't the only way to acquire cards, but definitely the quickest.  In a lot of CCG's, cards are also required by leveling up your account (via experience rewarded for playing games, winning tournaments, completing achievements, etc.).

Release an expansion set of new cards (around 40-60) every 3-5 months or so.  THIS IS NECESSARY TO KEEP THE GAME FRESH.  It will also generate more income as players will want to buy the new packs.  Make cards from the current expansion (and possibly 1 prior expansion) only purchasable with Credits.  It will also keep players who took a break to check back in and play again when a new expansion set is released.  Each new set of cards could introduce a new theme (i.e. - Mythical spirits) or 1-2 new abilities (i.e. - drain, leech, poison, disease, etc).  When a new expansion is released, a prior expansion packs are reduced in price and a prior expansion pack that was only purchasable via Credits is now able to be purchased for gold (at a higher price than other packs though, but reduce the Credit/Gold cost as time passes).

For example, a basic pack might contain 6 spirits (e.g. - 4 common, 2 uncommon).  A basic pack can be purchased (i'm making up numbers here) for 10 Credits or 2000 gold.  It should take a reasonable amount of time to acquire 1000g, maybe ~3-6 hours of game play.  This way, free-to-play players have access to the same cards that paying players have (with the exception of the most recent expansion or two), but they're just paying for the convenience of acquiring them at a faster rate (less real-life time spent grinding gold).

Offer different types of packs too.  For example, I just made up the prices again just for illustration purposes, and pretended the game is on the 4th expansion set...
 

• Energy booster - 4 Credits or 500g - contains 6 energy spirits, with 1 from each homeland (5 common, 1 uncommon and no rare/ultra rare).
   
• Basic Booster - 10 Credits or 2,000g - contains 15 basic/core spirits, i.e. - released at game launch (12 common, 3 uncommon and no rare/ultra rare).  People probably won't buy this pack with Credits, but that's ok, it's just a starter pack with some of the basic spirits.
   
• The Awakening (1st expanion) - 40 Credits or 10,000g - contains 15 spirits from the Awakening expansion set (10 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare/ultra rare).
   
• Silver Pack - 30 Credits or 7,500g - contains 15 spirits from the all expansions excluding the 3 most recent expansions (10 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare/ultra rare).
   
• Expansion Set #2 - 50 Credits or 20,000g - contains 15 spirits from the 2nd expansion set (10 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare/ultra rare).
   
• Gold Pack - 40 Credits or 10,000g - contains 15 spirits from the all expansions excluding the 2 most recent expansions (10 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare/ultra rare).
   
• Expansion Set #3 - 60 Credits or 25,000g - contains 15 spirits from the 3rd expansion set (10 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare/ultra rare).
   
• Platinum Pack - 50 Credits or 20,000g - contains 15 spirits from the all expansions excluding the most recent expansion (10 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare/ultra rare).
   
• Expansion Set #4 (current expansion) - 80 Credits - contains 15 spirits from the 4th expansion set (10 common, 4 uncommon, 1 rare/ultra rare).
   
Obviously, a lot more cards will need to be introduced and in order to make them more unique, new abilities will have to be introduced and some of the old abilities will need to be changed to avoid the homogenization of cards. 

For example, Flatlands/Wetlands/Woodlands/Drylands all have scouts (vision=3, movement=2) in Sicilian Scout, Barbarian Raiders, Spotted Leopards and Desert Jackals.  Highlands and Darklands don't have these types of scouts by design and it should stay that way, otherwise all the homelands will lose what makes them unique.

New abilities can be introduced to spirits with each expansion set to keep cards unique.  For example, here's some abilities that are common in many CCG's that could be added to SpiritWars...


• Armor (x) - Unit blocks (x) amount of melee damage. Does not block spells or ranged and magical attacks.  Armor above 1 should be very rare.
   
• Pierce (x) - Ignore (x) armor.
   
• Resistance (x) - Unit blocks (x) amount of damage from magical attacks and/or spells.
   
• Spell Penetratation (x) - Ignore (x) resistance.
   
• Sweeping Strike (x) - Attacks also hit enemy units adjacent to both attacker and defender for (x) damage.
   
• Spell Penetratation (x) - Ignore (x) resistance.
   
• Disease (x) - Any unit damaged by a unit with disease ability has all healing received reduced by 1 until the debuff wears off after X turns.
   
• Movement (x) - Unit temporarily gains +X movement range when in its homeland. For example, Stygian Rats with +1 Movement would get +1 movement range if it is moving from Darklands to any other space.  If it lands in Darklands again in the future, it will regain the buff.
   
• Thorns (x) - Any unit damaging another unit with the Thorns ability will take (x) amount of damage in addition to attack damage from the defending unit.  This might be an ability found commonly on Plants and work similar to a defender spirit but could work against all attacks even when not defending or be a good counter for First Strike ability.
   
• Regenerate (x) - A free and automatic heal at the end of each round.
   
These abilities would of course open up all new spells (both on a Combat caster spirit and Spell spirits). For example...


• Cleanse - Removes all debuffs from a spirit.
   
• Rust (x) - Removes (1/2/all) Armor from a spirit.
   
• Dispel Enchantment - Dispels an enchantment.
   
• Dispel All - Dispels all enchantments.
   

Once again, a lot of spirits will be needed to keep the game fresh and growing.  Another option for spirits would be adding another category of spirits - ENCHANTMENTS.  These would be temporary or permanent buffs/debuffs.  The could be single target or global.  Some "Spells" in the game would already be considered enchantments, but this would allow for them to be dispelled also.  A couple examples of a global enchantment would be...


• Tailwinds - Increases the movement range of all spirits (friendly and enemy) by +1.  This effect lasts 2 rounds.
   
• Dense Fog - Reduced the vision of all spirits (friendly and enemy) by 1, this effect can not reduce vision to 0.  This effect lasts 3 rounds.
   
• Tournaments
   
Hold various tournaments that require Credits and/or Gold. Hold various types of tournaments with varying rulesets.  The most popular tournaments in CCG's are Sealed.  Some examples of tournaments types and their entry fees...
 
• Standard - 2k-10k gold or 2-5 Credits - Players use their own decks with gold award to players finishing in the top X%.  This will be a big advantage to players with the strongest decks and won't be as popular with newer players.
   
• Sealed - Varies - In sealed tournaments, players get to open 4 packs to use in the tournament.  Players can be provided with 6 random common energy from each homeland to make sure their decks are playable.  Players will get 60 cards from the packs, plus the 30 basic energy, so this should be plenty of cards to make a deck with.
   
  A Sealed Awakening Tournament would have an entry fee of 5,000g and players will open 4 Awakening packs for the tournament, but the players do not get to keep any of the cards opened in the packs, they just get to play for the gold. 
   
  In addition, any player who wishes to keep the cards can pay an entry fee of 20,000g or 160 Credits (the cost of 4 Awakening packs) and will get to keep all the cards they open. So essentially they will buy 4 packs of cards and get to enter the tournament for free.  The player must decide to pay the entry fee before seeing which cards are in the sealed packs of course.
  
  Each player will get a completely random set of cards from each pack they open (i.e. - each player won't get the same cards as other tournament participants, so there will be a lot of variation of decks from player to player).
   
• Themed - 2k-10k gold - All players are provided with the same themed population of cards and have to make a deck out of it.  Same as the themed events ran in SpiritWars in the past.
   
• Draft - 2k-10k gold - Drafts are 4 player tournaments.  Draft Tournaments start with a drafting phase. Each player is shown a pack of 15 cards and picks a card from this pack touse to build their dungeon (deck).  All 4 players will be viewing a different pack at the start and they are the only ones that can see the pack initially.  After they pick 1 card that pack is rotated to the next player and they get to choose a card from the 14 cards remaining in the pack that was passed to them.  The packs rotate around until all 15 cards are picked.  Then a new pack is given to each player and the process repeats. You open 3 packs this way (3 complete rounds of drafting).  Once you have picked your 45 cards you build your deck.  Your deck must be at least 25 cards and can have any of the cards you drafted. Once each player has submitted their army, players will play a match-play "head-up" tournament similar to US sports playoffs.  These tournaments can be either single or double elimination.
  
  During the draft phase, in each of the 3 rounds players are given ~15 seconds to make picks for the first few cards of each pack, then 10 seconds each to pick the remaining cards each round.  The drafting portion should take about 8 minutes total, but is extremely fun, so time flies.  The entire draft tournament should be completed in less than an hour, closer to 45 minutes.
   

The Sealed, Draft and Themed tournaments will be the most popular because they put everyone on a level playing field.  I played in some CCG's with Draft Tournaments, those were always my favorite and I think they'd be very popular in SpiritWars.



• Other Enhancements
   
Allow players to buy other enhancements or upgrades that don't necessarily affect the game play.  For example...


• Extra Dungeons - Allow players to purchase extra dungeon slots (saved dungeons).  For example, when SW is relaunched, let's say each player can save up to 2 dungeons by default.  This enhancement would allow players to buy additional dungeon slots.  Allow a couple to be purchased with gold, but require Credits to unlock even more.
   
• Campaigns (Scenarios) - Assuming an AI can be programmed, allow players to unlock campaigns in which they fight against a computer opponent in great ancient battles or against raid bosses.  Completing campaigns can reward gold, a unique spirit, etc.
   
• Experience or Gold Boosts - Assuming an experience/leveling system is implemented, allow players to gain experience or gold at an increased rate. For example, +50-100% experience for 2 weeks or X games, +50-100% gold for 2 weeks or X games.
   

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[Psyclone]

@ Neo Pain... I think I agree with just about everything you've said in you last message.
 

Free to play. This is by far becoming one of the most popular concepts in gaming now. League of Legends is the BIGGEST online game... bigger than WoW because it is free to play. They make their money on non game impacting sales. They (and I) agree that if you can use money to buy things it shouldn't be to give yourself an advantage over those who cannot afford to buy shinies. Even as I say that i could see selling small packs of cards with maybe up to uncommon rarity (like MtG). Cards that would help build a deck but not be game changers in themselves.

I think free-to-play (f2p) is the best way to go as well.  I think one thing that hurt SW before was that the free-side and member's side were completely alienated from each other.  I've played a lot of League of Legends over the past few years, although I haven't played it much lately (I think I last played about 6 months ago), nevertheless, LoL is a great game with a great business model and they've been extremely successful with a free-to-play model.

One thing I wasn't clear on was... are you suggesting a) that f2p players can buy cards up to uncommon rarity (and allowing paying players to get rare/ultra rare in their packs); -OR- b) only paying players can buy packs, but only with common and uncommon?

I suggested allowing paying players to buy all packs, but f2p players would be limited to using an in-game psuedo currency (e.g. - gold) to purchase packs, but limit the f2p players to only the older cards (don't allow them to purchase cards from the most recent expansion packs.  The gold that f2p players could earn would need to take a while to acquire, but not an eternity.  For example, the most basic pack might take a ~6 hours of playing to earn enough gold.  Some of the better packs would cost 2x/5x/10x/20x more, thereby requiring roughly 12/20/40/80 hours of game play or more just to earn a pack.  These same packs would be available for purchase via real currency for a fee of $2-$7 (depending on which pack) or something like that and be the only players able to get the most recent expansion spirits as they aren't available right away for purchase by f2p players (until 6 months later?).

This would allow f2p players to remain competitive, although they'd have to play a ton of games to earn the gold to purchase the cards.  Having a large base of players playing a ton of games is a good thing for everyone.  They wouldn't have immediate access to the new shinies of course, but it shouldn't handicap them.  New expansion spirits shouldn't be more powerful or anything, although there would be more synergy opportunities.
 

League of Legends sale the new champions and different skins that are available for all the champions. But if you are like me and are monetarily challenged then you can earn in game "money" to buy champions. And even if you don't buy them all you still get opportunities to play them thanks to there being a "free" rotation of the champions you can use. Sooner or later you can play everyone.

Again, I agree.  This is similar to what I mentioned above about f2p players not having immediate access to cards.  League of Legends definitely has a great setup with their weekly rotation of champions.  This could definitely be applied to SpiritWars.  I would suggest leaving out all the ultra rares of course, but maybe have a weekly rotation of 10 spirits (9 uncommon, 1 rare) randomly chosen from all expansions except the most recent one, or maybe even better yet, a couple from each homeland.
 

I think the biggest problem we will have this go around will be competing in an instant gratification world. Many of these games nowadays are short quick and simple. And you either win or lose in that same quick manner. As we all know SW often is not a quick process. However just winning was enough for most of us. Or having a great match. And then the victory mig was always nice as well.  We have to make sure that win or lose the game will keep people's attention.

Once again, I agree.    I think the game will definitely need to be sped up.
 

Possibly offer an in game currency that you receive. A lot on win... half as much with a loss.

I think I'd make it less than half for a loss, or implement a system similar to League of Legends that only gives full credit to both players if the game lasts a certain period of time (24 min in LoL I believe).  Something like this would need to be implemented to deter win-trading or players quitting the second they fall behind.  Maybe a penalty for players quitting early too.
 

That way people with not as much money can still purchase in game content... just slower. Biggest thing is making sure to make it so money bought services has little impact the played game... i.e. he who has the most money can't just just buy the best deck.

This is a very important point!  I've seen a lot of games that claim to be free-to-play, but in reality they are pay-to-win and f2p players have absolutely no chance no matter how good they are or how long they've been playing.  Pay-to-Win games, games that offer way too much of an advantage to paying players, always fail in the end because it's never about skill, it's about who spends the most money that determines the outcome of games.
 

But another thing is content would have to be put out on a regular basis. To keep the game fresh and evolving. In a way almost like M:tG. Up population sizes and see where we go. That was always one of the things I enjoyed doing... creating a deck out of all the chaos.

Deinitely.  Release new content every month or two if possible, not necessarily

I suggested raids, scenarios, expansion packs, etc. earlier in this thread.  Those are very common and popular with online CCG's.  I would try to spread content releases out as much as possible instead of dropping huge patches of new content all at once.

For example...

Week #5 - Release new scenario pack
Week #10 - Release some raids
Week #15 - Release expansion pack (30-50 cards)
Week #20 - Release more scenarios
etc.

[Psyclone]

I had some other ideas that I wanted to throw out there, but I don't want to turn this into a suggestion thread.  I tried to keep a lot of the suggestions/input I posted in this thread relevant to the business model (such as revenue, attracting and retaining players, important changes that I feel are needed to bring SpiritWars up-to-date with other CCG's in 2013 and beyond).  As Lyn mentioned, this game was launched back in the late 1990's when the internet was still new and people were connecting via dial-up modems.

I've moved some of my other suggestions which aren't as important to the business model (such as achievements, changes to the maps, etc) to the Suggestions section of the forums.

[Neo Pain]

Awesome stuff Kevin... a very nice long read and many MANY thoughts that I mirror and have been trying to put to paper... but you said it much better than I could have.

One thing I wasn't clear on was... are you suggesting a) that f2p players can buy cards up to uncommon rarity (and allowing paying players to get rare/ultra rare in their packs); -OR- b) only paying players can buy packs, but only with common and uncommon?

That the Rare/Ultra Rare spirits not be available to purchase in packs. It goes back to the part where I would not like seeing it turn into he would has the most money has all the best spirits. Common and Uncommon spirits are what build a beck. And more often than not they are what win it.

[Psyclone]

That the Rare/Ultra Rare spirits not be available to purchase in packs. It goes back to the part where I would not like seeing it turn into he would has the most money has all the best spirits. Common and Uncommon spirits are what build a beck. And more often than not they are what win it.

@Neo Pain, I think we're on the same page still if I understand your concerns.  I don't want to see people running around with overpowered decks that they purchased.  I think it would be silly if people had decks with Council of Generals x3, Drylands Palace x5, Pyramid x5, Fixed Catapult, Lilith, Ballista, Catapult, Arabian Knights x5, Sicilian Knights x5, etc.  Heck, I don't want to see anyone ever with those kinds of decks whether they purchased it or earned it via free-to-play, unless it's some kind of special event/tournament or an optional game type.

One way that some games avoid this (over-powered dungeons full of uber-cards) is by limiting the number of rare/legendary cards allowed per deck, or a rating system (star ratings on cards).  The only constraint SpiritWars had was that some cards that were allowed only 1 copy per dungeon, but nothing more was needed due to negative and loss migrations.  Some system might be needed however if we move away from migrations, which I think will be necessary if SpiritWars goes with a free-to-play ("freemium") business model.

I liked the Trade version, but I think the final Member's Non-Trading version was better because dungeons were a lot less over-powered. I used to love getting a repop, especially the global repops. In trade, I remember people having multiple dieties, 10 archers in every deck, War Chant x5, etc.  While it was fun sometimes, you always saw the same dungeons and spirits.  I think the games were a lot more strategic (and therefore more fun) in the non-trading version where the dungeons weren't on steriods.

I realize that not everyone might know or remember what spirits were labeled "rare" and "ultra rare".  I built a large spreadsheet a long time ago for SpiritWars with every spirits information.  After the game went offline, I was considering trying to rebuild it when it was offline for some time and accessed the spirit database.  The only information in there that I don't think was posted online anywhere was the rarity and distribution frequency of each spirit.

Out of the 506 spirits in the game, 73 (14%) were "common", 177 (35%) were "uncommon", 170 (34%) were "rare" and 86 (17%) were "ultra rare".  Some of the "rares" and "ultra rares" in SpiritWars weren't over-powered or even very desirable cards by any means, for example - Armasi Henchman, Nubian Slaves, Vestal Priestess, Alesian Lookout, Restoration, Treacherous Virgin, etc.

In addition to rarity, each card had a distribution frequency associated with it, so even some of the common cards weren't really common.  Here's a few of the "common" cards with low distribution frequencies - Bog Monster, Bison, Arctic Bear, Apostasy, Dragonbane.

The only reason I'm mentioning this is to make sure we're using the same nomenclature.  A lot of the "rare" and "ultra rare" spirits aren't very over-powered and some of them are very weak.

Anyways, I think you need to allow people to get "rare" and "ultra rare" cards from buying packs.  I believe the chance of collecting one of the really powerful cards is the main reason that people will want to spend money ($$) on the game. I think these packs should also be available to free-to-play players, but it should cost in-game currency (gold) that takes a while to earn.

The only cards I was suggesting that weren't available to free-to-play players would be all the cards from the newest expansion set(s).  Each new expansion set should include the same distribution of common/uncommon/rare/ultra rares, so when a paying player buys a new pack, they're only getting 1 rare per pack (with a very small chance of it being extra rare).  Or maybe even have only 5 cards in a pack with no guarantee of one of them being a rare, for example - 3 common, 1 uncommon, 1 uncommon(75%)/rare(17%)/ultra rare(8%).

By the way, here's a list of the spirits that are categorized as "rare" and "ultra rare"...

RARE SPIRITS (170)

ENERGY (25)

• Darkwizard's Crypt, Moonlit Tomb, Vampire's Castle
• Drylands Palace, Merchant Caravan, Pyramid, Tower of Babel
• Aqueduct, Coliseum, Gladiator Academy, Mt. Vesuvius
• Augean Stables, Greek Monastery, Minotaur's Cave, Mountain Stream, Mt. Etna
• Isle of the Dead, Mineral Springs, Tethys' Well, Trading Post, Waterfall
• Druid's Grove, Farmers Market, Hibernian Alehouse, Hibernian Shepherd

COMBAT (74)

• Ancient WitchChild, Armasi Assassin, Armasi Henchman, Crimson Wizard, Dark Adept, Dark Enchantress, Dark Scholar, Dark Witches, Hydra, Lord of the Dead, Nemesis, Phantom Horde, Shadow Blades, Vlad the Impaler, Werewolf
• Charax Sorceress, Fixed Catapult, Lilith, Mounted Bowmen, Nile Crocodiles, Nubian Slaves, Parthian Archers, Parthian Warlord, Ramses, Sultan of Persia, Unseen Stalker, Weapons Master
• Apulian Archers, Apulian Priest, Bacchus, Ballista, Catapult, Centurion, Cleric of Apollo, Hannibal's Elephants, Pavian Alchemist, Pavian Merchant, Praetorian Guard, Priest of Mars, Roman Horse-Archers, Roman Shield Bearer, Spartacus, Venal Governor, Vestal Priestess
• Argonaut Archers, Beastmaster, Centaurs, Cyclops, Jason, Priest of Vulcan, Rock Troll, Spartan Archers, Spartan Engineers
• Alesian Lookout, Atlantis Shaman, Banshee, Berserker, Crossbowmen, Frost Giant, Savarian Wizard, Saxon Knights, Siren, Valkyries, Viking Pillagers
• Elf Ranger, Elven Blades, Elven Princess, Elven Sorceress, Giant Hedgehog, Hippolyta, Sylvan Druid, Unicorn, Verdant Thicket, Woodland Sylph

DEFENDER (17)

• Necromancer's Tower, Ogre's Lair
• Flaming Wall, Sumerian Citadel
• Hangman's Gallows, Roman Fortress, Temple of Pluto
• Dragon's Cave, Highland Bandits, Highlands Fortress
• Sea Dragon's Lair
• Amazon Temple, Elven Outpost, Giant Spider Web, Hesperides Garden, Living Thorns, Tree Fort

SPELL (54)

• Anthrax, Darkwizard's Spellbook, Gluttony, Graft & Corruption, Under the Red Sky, Vampire's Kiss, Warped Terrain
• Antediluvian Curse, Column of Fire, Council of Generals, Emancipation, Eye for an Eye, Fortify Defenders, Hero's Quest, Internal Power, Pacifism, Prisoner of War, Tomb of the Kings, Whispering Sphinx
  
• Age of Reason, Cupid's Arrow, Devout Prayers, Exorcism, Fall of the Mighty, Hasten Fighters, Hasten Romans, Holy Light, Master's Wisdom, Military Genius, Rage of Perseus, Sicilian Executioner, Spyglass
  
• Advanced Architecture, Aegean Sea Tempest, Conscription, Earthquake, Love Letter, Oath of Fealty, Recurved Bows, Stone Masons
  
• Alesian Frigate, Bolt of Lightning, Mermaid's Prize, Mjolnir, Rampaging Colossus, Treachery, War Chant
• Clinging Vines, Harvest Time, Kiss of Life, Natural State, Pandora's Box, Restoration, Treacherous Virgin

 
ULTRA RARE SPIRITS (86)

ENERGY (22)

• Armasi Ferrier, Decrepit Mill, Dragons Graveyard
• Desert Scavengers, Library of Alexandria, Nubian Refugees, Persian Waterwheel
• Apulian Smithy, Arundel Mill
• Diamond Mine, Mounted Hunter, Olympic Vineyards, Oracle, Vulcan's Forge
• Alesian Harbor, Itinerant Merchant, Nereid's Spring, Saxon Seer
• Forest Chapel, Mts. of the Moon, Sacred Oak, Sacred Woods

COMBAT (40)

• Circe, Fallen Paladin, Grendel, Medusa, Unholy Priestess
• Bedouin Saboteur, Osirus, Priest of Karnak, Sphinx
• Apollo's Seamstress, Cupid, Diana, Venus
• Achilles, Ajax, Alexander the Great, Athena, Cronos, Dwarven Slaver, Dwarven Smith, Guldar, Hector, Hercules, Storm Mage, Vulcan
• Baldur the Good, Beowulf, Moat Monster, Orion, Saxon Bard, Sea Dragon, Thor, Viking Archer
• Ash Druid, Bird-Headed Monster, Forest Dragon, Hibernian Fletcher, Hibernian Hares, Lemming, Pan

DEFENDER (3)

• Forest of the Impaled
• Dwarven Fortress
• Guardian Angel

SPELL (21)

• Acid Rain, Ambush, Grim Reaper, Poisoned Chalice, Ragnarok, Suicide, Witchcraft
• Scorched Earth, Spoils of War, Tribute
• Aphrodite's Dream, Jubilee, Juno's Betrayal
• Funeral Procession, Stone Touch, Thunder of Zeus
• Lost at Sea, Meteor Shower, Sunken Warship
• Pagan Sacrifice, Purify Waters

[Neo Pain]

I could see a pack having a chance for a rare... or some deal where with every 2-3 packs you buy you get a rare. But the problem there still is if you don't put out enough new spirits a person with enough money can basically buy their self an amazingly powerful dungeon.

And I would, if at all possible, avoid a scenario where he who has the most money has all the toys.

But you also have to make money too.

I could see having packs of cards that are only flatlands/drylands, or other combinations like that. I dunno... it will be a work in progress... and it will need to be fluid with the current gaming situations.

But first I hope Mom is having some luck with a programmer.

[Xaxyx]

I liked the Trade version, but I think the final Member's Non-Trading version was better because dungeons were a lot less over-powered.

I agree that the "non-trading" version tended to diminish overall deck prowess.  However, I disagree with your overall point -- merely by the fact that ultimately, there was no such thing as a non-trading version.

If memory serves: after every battle, there was a chance that a spirit would migrate from the loser's deck directly into the winner's.  The probability of this event was inversely proportional to the ratings disparity between winner and loser.  Thus, players who manipulated the ratings system (golly I sure hated those guys!) could sandbag and potentially farm powerful cards in this manner -- especially since with a low rating, they'd get to go second.  This all of course blithely ignoring the potential for players to throw games to one another in order to attempt to instantiate an automated trade between them.  Or creating multiple accounts for similar purposes.  These sorts of nefarious activities were against the rules, but the only enforcement was manual, by administrators.

Thus, I raise: there should be a truly non-trading version where deck migrations never, ever occur.  Only then can the environment truly said to be fair, insofar as that everyone's card pool is determined solely by the fate of global migrations and the like.  (And these, too, should be ratings independent, if they weren't already.)