Status update + input needed

[Psyclone]

@Xaxyx... That's not trading, that's exploiting.

As for migrations, I also believe they should be eliminated.  I think the negative migrations were a huge turn-off for people and probably led to a lot of /ragequit when someone had a few bad migs in a row. 

I don't think the old system/model of population migrations will work.  I think the best way to go is selling packs of cards like almost every other CCG.  Give players the option to either buy or earn cards.  No migrations between players and no loss of cards.

[Psyclone]

I could see a pack having a chance for a rare... or some deal where with every 2-3 packs you buy you get a rare. But the problem there still is if you don't put out enough new spirits a person with enough money can basically buy their self an amazingly powerful dungeon.

And I would, if at all possible, avoid a scenario where he who has the most money has all the toys.

But you also have to make money too.

I could see having packs of cards that are only flatlands/drylands, or other combinations like that. I dunno... it will be a work in progress... and it will need to be fluid with the current gaming situations.

But first I hope Mom is having some luck with a programmer.

Neo, I've played a lot of different CCG's.  Some of them are pretty good at minimizing the Pay-to-Win (P2W) scenario of "he who has the most money has all the toys".

Remember, 256 out of 506 of the spirits currently in SW are Rare or Ultra Rare.  As long as you limit how easily/quickly someone can earn/accrue rares, then I don't think it will get out of hand.  Even if someone can buy a pack that is guaranteed to contain 1 rare/ultra card, they'd still have to buy hundreds of packs (probably ~$1000) to get them all.  Also, remember that currently a lot of the rare cards aren't that great/powerful, so getting an ultra rare card doesn't mean that you're automatically getting an extremely powerful card like Diana/Baldur/Grim Reaper, you might get a weak ultra rare like Tribute/Sunken Warship/Forest Chapel.

Of course, as a business, you can't limit how many packs of cards someone buys with real money.  If someone wants to spend $500-$1000 hundreds of packs of cards, they're going to end up with almost every card in the game.   

One way some CCG's keep things from getting out of hand is by offering different game options/rulesets.  I'm not one of them, but there are A LOT of CCG players out there that love playing with uber decks filled with rares/ultra rares/dieties/etc.  If we're talking about rebuilding a game based on hundreds or thousands of players being online at a time, then you can easily offer multiple options for rulesets/game-types.  For example...

     Beginner Ruleset - 30+ card deck, limit 4 Rares
     Limited Ruleset - 30+ card deck, limit 2 Ultra Rares, 6 Rares
     Open Ruleset - 30+ card deck, no card limits
     Weekly (Rotating) Ruleset - Varying rulesets, eg - "no archers", "no dieties", "Open but no Ultra Rares", or maybe a theme

I think the other thing is that a lot of CCG's are now offering is tournaments.  Drafts and Sealed Pack tournaments are extremely popular in most CCG's that I've played and use a population of cards unique to that tournament.  Other tournaments can be something like the old themed tournaments SW used to run, or use your own spirits but various different rulesets.

These types of options (rulesets and tournaments) will allow players to play the types of games that they prefer. 

We want to encourage players to purchase card packs.  The only way people are going to be interested in purchasing card packs is to get the rare and ultra rare spirits.

[Xaxyx]

@Xaxyx... That's not trading, that's exploiting.

Tomato, tomato.  I recall at one point they even put some sort of "equivalent trading value" rule in place, to try to prevent players from ripping other players off and/or giving away valuable cards away by mistake.  Any sort of trade mechanic that requires so many crutches and scotch tape to be held together is probably better off ceasing to exist altogether.

As for migrations, I also believe they should be eliminated.  I think the negative migrations were a huge turn-off for people and probably led to a lot of /ragequit when someone had a few bad migs in a row.

Absolutely.  Losing a match already has a stigma attached: you lose rating points.  To also butcher that player's deck is just salt in the wound.  Conversely, a model wherein a player's primary source of intelligently improving his deck is attempting to defeat players whose decks contain the cards you're seeking is poor indeed.

Speaking from my own experience:  I recall getting a Unicorn (or something) in a migration.  Astounded at my good fortune (it fit my deck perfectly) I happily stuffed it in my deck, immediately played a game, lost -- and lost the Unicorn. 

And /ragequit.

I don't think the old system/model of population migrations will work.  I think the best way to go is selling packs of cards like almost every other CCG.  Give players the option to either buy or earn cards.  No migrations between players and no loss of cards.

That's certainly a viable and proven option.  Looking from the other end of the spectrum, though, we might want to be careful not to construct a model that favors or allows pay-to-win.  Either that, or have multiple leagues, where one league works like CCG and the other is a purely sealed deck-like environment (either cloned kingdoms, or equivalent-value kingdoms, with no trading or migrations at all).

[Psyclone]

Tomato, tomato.  I recall at one point they even put some sort of "equivalent trading value" rule in place, to try to prevent players from ripping other players off and/or giving away valuable cards away by mistake.  Any sort of trade mechanic that requires so many crutches and scotch tape to be held together is probably better off ceasing to exist altogether.

I agree. I thought the non-trade version of the game was 100x better.

[Bruno]

I think I like the game as it was. We need no changes except random hexes each game as apposed to random maps.  As much as the game irritated me at times, I always came back.  It's the one game I still miss and think of every so often.  Nothing is filling the void of SW.  If revenue is the issue, then we should increase the monthly charge.  I think it was $65 a year before.  Maybe $10 or$15 a month would get us where we need to be.  We need its simplicity so it increases our odds of finding a programmer.

[King Leshrac]

I loved trade.  And I loved having and facing powerful decks.  There were some common themes but I felt like my decks were usually different than others.

[Iggy]

At the moment I don't have the time to read all of the models--I apologize for that as I see some of the discussion here of LoL and other games; I was thinking about this game and thought of checking in today to see what was happening.

I have played a lot of these new games out there.  Gamers are frustrated..are they addicted to some things and throw buckets of cash for items in games? Yes...but they are also frustrated with the same systems.

Things I've learned:
World of warcraft is/was incredibly successful.  You cannot buy anything in that game that gains a performance advantage besides a subscription to play the game; I think this to be the best model.

Many flash card games exist on sites like Kongregate that limit the number of games people can play, the cards they have access to, and otherwise attempt to force the player to buy product.  If you don't buy product it will take 1000s of hours to be competitive or you can never be competitive.

League of legends, is a hybrid model..however again to really get 'all' the content unlocked you must purchase at least $100-200 in goods + play 1000s of hours to unlock things.  I'm kind of wondering how long League will last as after buying some content upfront--how many people keep buying more is a good question...

I don't know how much advertising brings in for games and sites, I can't imagine it being enough unless this game becomes insanely popular.


Onto where these models and what I feel what I can add to this discussion.  The creator of Spiritwars is/was a brilliant guy.  What Randy wrote on how creators should be compensated for their work as well as the idea of a "Level Playing Field" should really be taken to heart.  Charge a reasonable subscription fee, have a mantra for people to entrust in ('i.e. we won't screw you over), and focus on marketing the game well and making sure people know what's out there.

Now thinking as a player instead of a designer, I feel the old cost structure with a working and well-received game would be a hit and is something I'd immediately buy into.  Having a smaller 'demo' version so people can see what they're getting into would help give a factor of addictiveness to bring people in. 

Regardless of what you do, I would just stress to not ruin it with a 'pay to win' system.  Don't do things like sell booster packs and stuff.  This game is far far too good for something like that.

[TwistedMe]

Well..... another year comes and goes... where is the game?  No one knows...
To play SpiritWars remains but a dream... I'm starting to doubt it... know what I mean?

Seriously.... I do not understand why nothing is being done to bring the game back.
Lyn, if it's a matter of money, I can understand THAT.... plain and simple, it TAKES money to make money!
You didn't create the game... you didn't program it... it's not YOUR baby!  It was Randy's.
I can understand WANTING to bring it back, but you know what happens when you WANT in one hand...
If you aren't able to resurrect SpirtWars, have you considered selling it? 
I doubt you'd get all that much, but it would be more than you apparently have now...
But it probably wouldn't be enough to get it back online...

But at least YOU could put SOMETHING in your pocket... and WE could play the game!

How long are you going to just sit on it?  Have you given up?  I used to rock my baby to sleep while I played SW late at night... a small 10-pound baby would just lay in my arms, smile at me and fade away to dreamland.... well, that baby is a ten-year old monster now and HE wants to play more than I do!  It's been too long. 

I'm not seeing any "updates".... I've read the abundant amount of feedback and suggestions... you've got a great game concept and a faithful, loyal base of intelligent people at your disposal... What is the hold up?  I'm having a difficult time believing you can't find someone to program a simple game.  It's my understanding programmers are a dime a dozen.  How much money do they want to handle the project?  Have you considered selling "shares" in the game?  Perhaps there are 20 people on here that can cough up $1000 each for a "stake" in the company?  Perhaps a programmer would accept a percentage of the first year or two?  Come on... there are SO many ways to pursue this.... why is SpirtWars just festering in a dark hole? 

By no means am I trying to be mean... over the years, I have come to respect you and your family!  You're a genuine "nice person"... no doubt about it... but let's face it... business clearly isn't a strong point. 
If you DON'T have the TIME.... and you DON'T have the MONEY.... there are other ways to make this happen... do you have a plan?  How far have you taken this in the past year... or two.... or five?  Are you any closer to getting the game online? 

I'm sorry... it's just damned frustrating.  I want to play SpirtWars.  Instead, I have to go spend my game time playing BattlePirates... or Soldiers, Inc., or Candy Crush... or some other COMPLEX game that was programmed by SOMEONE... all of which are CRAP.  I just can't accept that there isn't ANYONE who can do this!

I have been and always shall remain... a loyal fan of SpiritWars...

[Vampira]

HI all lets chat!