Shall we try again? Would you be willing to help us?

[Lyn Chase]

Hello friends,
     I've tried SO many times to bring back SpiritWars and have failed at every turn, but I want to try one more time.  Eric and I have been in communication with a player you all knew as Light.  We are in the early stages of developing a plan.  We will be reviewing Randy's design documents to use as a starting point.  We will be looking at updating the graphics and our intent is to rewrite the game so players will not need to download a client.  We will need to update the chat system.  There is a LOT of work to be done but I really want to try again.  I envision putting together an advisory panel of former players.  Would you be willing to help?  My older son Jonathan recently ran a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to publish his book and he was successful, although he needed to raise only $7000.  We will need substantially more for SpiritWars, but at least I have an idea of what will be needed to initiate the campaign. 
     One thing I want to put out for discussion now:  I want to stay true to Randys' vision of a fair and level playing field.  I DO NOT want to move to a pay-to-win model.  In today's market, can we succeed with a subscription model?
     Please post your thoughts here.  I promise you that I will read them all.  Thank you!
     Love, Lyn   (aka Mom)

[dilligaf^]

hey hey Mom...its that crazy Canuk....I'd be down for a monthly fee to play....damn Summerstorm and I miss this game!!!!!



figure out a fair fee, and we'll be in!!!!



dilli

[Light]

Hello dilli!  I'm not sure if you remember me, but I certainly remember summer and you! (:

At the moment, we're still in the very early stages of figuring things out.  While I think there are a lot of questions that need to answered regarding cost, subscriptions, and so on, the truth is that we have many more pressing issues.

As Lyn hinted at, we're looking at redesigning the game and making it look more modern.  But, I want to stress that we absolutely do not want to change the core values of what SW was about, which is also a massive part of what made it so great: no pay to win, family-friendly community, and a game that is easy to play for people of all skill levels.

With that being said, many things do need to be brought into 2016, like the graphics/art and the game interfaces.  I'm unsure of changing gameplay rules too drastically, but I think arguments could be made for some changes.

At the moment, any and all ideas on how we can update the game or improvement it are incredibly valuable.  This the first chance that players will have to get their ideas into the hands of the people developing the game, but it will not be the last.  However, sooner is better than later, since we're still at the very beginning of this project, which makes it easier to incorporate multiple ideas and make changes.

Below are a few questions that I'd love to see answered by anyone who reads this, but especially former players.  Feel free to answer some or all (or none!) of them, in as much or as little detail as you see fit.  If there is anything I've left out, or anything additional you would like to add (a question, a comment, or anything else), let us hear it.

1) What did you enjoy most about the game?  What do you want to see remain the same as it was, no matter what?

2) What did you dislike about the game?  How can that be improved, so that it's more enjoyable to you in this version?

3) How important to you were the Tournaments and League?  Did you ever participate in either or both of them?  If so, which ones and how often?  If not, why not?  How can they be improved?  What were the most and least enjoyable aspects of these features?

4) If you were a member, how did you feel about migrations and events?  Did they happen too often or not enough?  Considering that they're an integral part of the game design, how can they be improved?

5) On what devices would you play SW?  Would you play on a a mobile device, or would you only play on a computer/laptop?  Is there any aspect of the game that can be changed to make you more likely to play on a mobile device?  Do you think the mobile version of the game should be run separately from the PC version?

6) Keeping in mind that the game will never be pay to win, what kind of features would make you consider signing up for a membership? 

[Psyclone]

I remember you Light!    My in-game name was Kevin, not to be confused with kevincscott.  I was relatively quiet and typically played late at night, so a lot people don't usually remember me, but I played A LOT.  I had either the 2nd or 3rd most games played behind The_Alchemist.  I started playing in 1999(?) and was playing back in the days of trade, although I preferred the no-trade version more.

I've played dozens of online CCGBG's (CCG + Board Game) since SpiritWars, but none of them are/were anywhere near as good.

1a)  What did you enjoy most about the game?

I thought the whole concept of the game was great... a CCGBG with castles (base), the Fog of War (vision), and just the overall game play.

1b) What do you want to see remain the same as it was, no matter what?

I might be in the minority on this one, but I really loved the way populations were handled/distributed compared to other CCG's, ie - you didn't permanently keep your collection and couldn't acquire every card.  I didn't mind losing my best cards because it created a lot of variety in mine and my opponents' decks.

I know it was oftentimes frustrating losing your best and favorite cards, but everyone had completely different populations and you saw a great deal of variety from deck-to-deck/game-to-game.  Too many other CCGBG's resulted in everyone running similar decks because after everyone played enough games, spent enough money, etc, they had access to just about every card in the game. 

In SpiritWars, it was rare to run into Baldur, Unicorn, Tower of Babel, etc, because eventually they would lose them.

2a) What did you dislike about the game?

The 2nd move advantage.  It was always the #1 complaint I heard and I think most people agreed.  It was too great of an advantage for the majority of players, especially if you knew ahead of time that you would be playing 2nd, which was oftentimes the case because you knew who your opponent was (and their rating) before challenging/accepting.

My only other criticism of SpiritWars (and almost all CCG's, particularly CCGBG's) is the speed of play.  Some players were extremely slow and there wasn't a timer.  I think this is something that has to be added.  Some games took 45+ minutes and not because it was an intense game, but because the opposing player was multitasking, or playing at work, or just AFK a lot.

2b) How can that be improved, so that it's more enjoyable to you in this version?

I'm not sure what would be the best way without any testing, but some suggestions/options are...

2^nd MOVE ADVANTAGE

• COMPLETELY RANDOMIZE SILVER/GOLD PLAYER - I don't think this fixes the problem much, but it will help reduce it and also help to reduce sandbagging (intentionally playing crappy decks to tank rating and using powerful decks when the player is almost guaranteed they'll go 2nd). It just seemed too easy for a player to stack their deck accordingly when they knew which player they were ahead of time, such as Gold (player 2) stacking their deck with archers.
• SLIGHTLY NERF ARCHERS SOMEHOW - I think archers are the #1 issue/advantage to playing 2nd.  I'm not sure the best way to nerf them as I have only put about 10 minutes of thought into it, but maybe something like... OPTION 1 - Don't allow archers to move and attack on the same turn.  OPTION 2 - Archers don't get terrain bonus(es).
• GET RID OF ALTERNATING PHASES - Switch to each player doing all 5 phases on their turn.  For example, P1 Activation → P1 Movement → P1 Combat → P1 Healing → P1 Maintenance → P2 Activation → P2 Movement → P2 Combat → P2 Healing → P2 Maintenance → P1 Activation → etc.  I think this would have the added bonus of speeding up the game play quite a bit, but I'm guessing it will probably be too drastic of a change and require quite a bit of balancing, which is something I'm not pushing for at all.  I love the game the way it is for the most part, but I think 2nd move really is just too much of an advantage.

SLOW PLAY

• ADD A TIMER - Add a timer for each turn or phase.  I think there are several variations of Chess/Go/Byo-yomi/etc timers you could use, such as a flat time, time increments (delays), etc.  Maybe assess a penalty of 1 damage to a player's castle for time penalties with possibly increasing penalties for further infractions.
• GET RID OF ALTERNATING PHASES - See above.

3a) How important to you were the Tournaments and League? Did you ever participate in either or both of them?  If so, which ones and how often?  If not, why not?

My schedule didn't allow me to commit to playing League.  I believe I subbed a few times or played as an alternate, but that's about it.

I loved playing tournaments and played them every chance I got, which wasn't very often unfortunately.

3b) How can they be improved?

Many CCG's have different tournament types, such as...

• CONSTRUCTED - Players bring their regular decks (dungeons) from their own collection (population), sometimes with limitations.
• FIXED - Every player uses the same pre-determined deck or creates a deck from the same pre-determined collection.
• SEALED - Every player is randomly given a completely different collection (population) and creates a deck from it.
• DRAFT - Each player is shown a different group (pack) of cards (spirits) with the same quality/rarity.  Players pick one card at a time.  After picking a card, they will get a new group of cards to make their next pick from.  I've seen DRAFT's handled with many different rulesets in other CCG's, so I won't go into much more detail.

I know SpiritWars ran both CONSTRUCTED and FIXED tournaments, but SEALED and DRAFT are much more fun in my opinion and seem to be the most popular in other CCG's as well.

3c) What were the most and least enjoyable aspects of these features?

In SpiritWars, the most enjoyable aspect was tournaments in which we used a different collection (population) and getting to play cards I didn't own or ever get to play.  In other CCG's, I actually enjoyed DRAFT & SEALED tournaments a lot.  I always played every one I could because it was fun getting a new and completely random collection and building a deck from it.  Building the decks was just as much fun as playing the games.

The least enjoyable aspect was the wait time between rounds.  Many CCG's/CCGBG's overcome this with a timer.

4a) If you were a member, how did you feel about migrations and events?

I loved the events.  Even the ones that purged my favorite spirits.

I thought the Victory/Loss Migrations were great as well, but have mixed emotions about the Positive and Negative migrations, which I'll explain in further detail below.

4b) Did they happen too often or not enough?

I understand the need for the Negative Migrations to keep people from owning 1000+ spirits.  I think the Negative Migrations were fine, but many of the Positive Migrations weren't necessary, which I'll also explain below.

4c) Considering that they're an integral part of the game design, how can they be improved?

Most of the Positive Migrations occurred with new populations, which only started with 200 spirits for some reason and made it really hard to make a competitive deck at the start.  The Positive Migrations occurred quite frequently early on (until you got 300-350 spirits) and seemed a little pointless to me instead of just starting the player with 300 spirits and allowing them to make a more competitive deck.  I think you could boost the starting populations up to 300 and it would eliminate a lot of the unnecessary (imo) Positive Migrations.

5a) On what devices would you play SW?  Would you play on a a mobile device, or would you only play on a computer/laptop?

I never play games on my mobile phone and doubt I ever will, at least not in the foreseeable future. As of right now, I would probably only play on my computer and laptop but could definitely see myself playing on a tablet/iPad in the future.

5b) Is there any aspect of the game that can be changed to make you more likely to play on a mobile device?

No. 

5c) Do you think the mobile version of the game should be run separately from the PC version?

I'm indifferent as long as it doesn't lead to my opponent playing slowly.  It just doesn't seem like a very viable way to play the game due to the amount of screen real estate required, namely the map.

6) Keeping in mind that the game will never be pay to win, what kind of features would make you consider signing up for a membership?

I'm sure I'll be a lifetime member as long as there's players to play against.

7) ADDITIONAL COMMENTS

Sorry I didn't reply sooner but I haven't been checking this site much recently since it's been so quiet for so long, but I always try to pop my head back in every once in a while just in case.  I suspect most other people are the same.

I'm willing to help out in any way I can.  I've done some programming (adequate at many, expert and none of them) and know a little bit about databases (Access and MySQL).  I'm great with Excel, but I doubt that will be very useful.

[Lotar]

1) What did you enjoy most about the game?  What do you want to see remain the same as it was, no matter what?

I loved the strategy component and its simplicity.  The gameplay was great, but agree the pace could be stepped up a bit.

2) What did you dislike about the game?  How can that be improved, so that it's more enjoyable to you in this version?

The long pauses waiting for the other player was really the main turn-off for me.  I would also love an option to watch other players compete.

3) How important to you were the Tournaments and League?  Did you ever participate in either or both of them?  If so, which ones and how often?  If not, why not?  How can they be improved?  What were the most and least enjoyable aspects of these features?

I really got into the tournaments, but not so much the league.  I tried to get into them as often as possible, but they weren't always conducive to my schedule.  Perhaps offer multiple tournaments at different times of the day, and a way to sign up for them in advance.  Also, I think a way to see brackets, replays, and live play would be a fantastic addition.

4) If you were a member, how did you feel about migrations and events?  Did they happen too often or not enough?  Considering that they're an integral part of the game design, how can they be improved?

It's been so long I don't honestly recall.  Keeping things spiced up is nice, but make sure they are predictable and well communicated.

5) On what devices would you play SW?  Would you play on a a mobile device, or would you only play on a computer/laptop?  Is there any aspect of the game that can be changed to make you more likely to play on a mobile device?  Do you think the mobile version of the game should be run separately from the PC version?

I'm a Mac guy... if it's going to be computer based, it needs to be neutral to the OS.  I would play on my iPad or laptop.  It would be quite an achievement if you were able to connect players regardless of the platform.  The big component of SW that really drew me in was the community.  If you have platforms running separately, it defeats that purpose.  I think the majority of today's new players would be drawn in with an App platform.  Most of my current gaming is either on a console or my iPad. 

6) Keeping in mind that the game will never be pay to win, what kind of features would make you consider signing up for a membership?

A neat aspect of other games I liked was the ability to 'trade' cards with other players.  I'm not sure how this would work best since you will not be going with PTW (thank you, thank you, thank you), but it would be a cool way to further connect players.  I do feel that a free side is needed to draw people into the game... just as Randy did originally.  But for me, I will register regardless just to help keep things going!

OTHER: The online gaming market is big, but saturated.  SW needs to be visually appealing, incorporate some kind of basic motion graphics, and maintain integrity of gameplay and community.  I believe the best market to capture new payers is on the App platform.  However, empirical data is the best tool to enable decision making.  See what you can find about the demographics to help fine-tune design and set pricing to ensure sustainability.

BEST OF LUCK!!

[Persephone]

I'm so excited about this!!

1) What did you enjoy most about the game?  What do you want to see remain the same as it was, no matter what?

My favorite part was the community. I spent way more time loitering in the chat room part than actually playing matches against people.

2) What did you dislike about the game?  How can that be improved, so that it's more enjoyable to you in this version?

At the moment, I can't think of anything I disliked enough to want changed.

3) How important to you were the Tournaments and League?  Did you ever participate in either or both of them?  If so, which ones and how often?  If not, why not?  How can they be improved?  What were the most and least enjoyable aspects of these features?

I loved both! I was in multiple seasons of League and eventually became a Tourney host. I don't recall any problems with League, but sometimes the tournaments would last too long. Sometimes that was a result of the deck being used; some combinations just tended to result in long games.

4) If you were a member, how did you feel about migrations and events?  Did they happen too often or not enough?  Considering that they're an integral part of the game design, how can they be improved?

I never liked losing my best spirits, but who did? That was probably part of the reason I played fewer matches. But considering that the negative events happened to everyone, I can't really complain about it. The positive events often gave me stuff I didn't need or want, but I did occasionally get some cool stuff. Overall, the events were a good way to shake everything up and keep the game fresh.

5) On what devices would you play SW?  Would you play on a a mobile device, or would you only play on a computer/laptop?  Is there any aspect of the game that can be changed to make you more likely to play on a mobile device?  Do you think the mobile version of the game should be run separately from the PC version?

I would most likely play exclusively on my laptop. I might log in on my phone simply for the chat feature if I was somewhere that I needed to kill some time, but I doubt I would want to play matches on my phone.. the screen would just be too small. I would possibly play on a tablet though.

6) Keeping in mind that the game will never be pay to win, what kind of features would make you consider signing up for a membership? 

As long as the game is basically the same as the original, I'll sign up in a heartbeat.

[LDZ]

I loved playing spiritwars. You have a subscriber in me as soon as it comes back

[tRu]

Lyn, (MOM)

How can I explain the feeling that came over me when I saw an update for Spiritwars pop up in my email inbox.

Remember when you're about 9 and desperately wanting to still believe in Santa Claus but all your friends are saying he's not real yet you know you JUST KNOW in your heart that he is? And some obliging adult takes the time to do something magical so you can hold onto that belief just a little bit longer...

That's how it felt. That and more.

Spirit wars wasn't the first 'online community' I joined but it was near enough and it certainly was the one I (have) stuck with the longest.  I either left the others or they left me.  Spirit wars has never left me.  It's always been there, in the back of mind and odd things would remind me of it, over the years and I'd find myself coming here (or sending emails).

There are people that you meet in this world that touch your life in ways that you can't even begin to imagine will happen and Randy and you and Jon and the whole Spiritwars family did that.

I didn't have anything horrid happen to me, but I knew if I did, that the SW peeps would be on my side.  There was a feeling of love that tagged along in the trash talk and silliness and other discussions. 

Elfie I miss the hell outta you.  Contact me!!!!

It's because of Randy and others here that I even thought about reading Heinlein and I've thoroughly devoured all of his books now, not just the ones that were recommended, even the ones that people were certain I'd abhor. i know that seems silly but really it opened my eyes to things I would never have found my way to otherwise and those things have enriched my life beyond measure.

I play online games, searching for that sense of belonging that was here and it never quite comes up to snuff and I've been in a WoW guild for years with people that I know from other places and we all email and phone and text and visit and you know what it's still not the level of complete and utter trust and belonging that i felt at the SW chats.

So to make this long winded O M G a bit shorter. What ever I can do, whatever you need you got it. 

tRu

[Lotar]

4) If you were a member, how did you feel about migrations and events?  Did they happen too often or not enough?  Considering that they're an integral part of the game design, how can they be improved?

I never liked losing my best spirits, but who did? That was probably part of the reason I played fewer matches. But considering that the negative events happened to everyone, I can't really complain about it. The positive events often gave me stuff I didn't need or want, but I did occasionally get some cool stuff. Overall, the events were a good way to shake everything up and keep the game fresh.

yeah, I forgot about losing spirits... that kinda sucked when it was one you loved.  I agree on the positive outcomes, too... but perhaps if we are given a choice of 1 of 3, then you can kinda have input on the reward and not feel so helpless.

[King Leshrac]

I'd like to echo tru's sentiments.  There's never been an online community like this one, closest I came was my WoW guild for a year or so but still nothing like this.  I really miss everyone and I miss Randy as I'm sure we all do.  It was his kind and generous spirit that really fostered the atmosphere.  I really would love for this to happen again, the game was as great as the community was. 

1) What did you enjoy most about the game?  What do you want to see remain the same as it was, no matter what?
I enjoyed making a deck.  Personally I think the 2nd move advantage could be tweaked a little, but there were some good decks that played better moving first as well. 

2) What did you dislike about the game?  How can that be improved, so that it's more enjoyable to you in this version?
I disliked when they got rid of trade and restricted direct damage, but thats just me haha.  I also think negative migrations could be maybe less harsh.  Positive ones could be less useless.

3) How important to you were the Tournaments and League?  Did you ever participate in either or both of them?  If so, which ones and how often?  If not, why not?  How can they be improved?  What were the most and least enjoyable aspects of these features?

Tournaments were pretty fun.  I enjoyed playing them often.  League was fun at times but could be better organized if it happens again. 

4) If you were a member, how did you feel about migrations and events?  Did they happen too often or not enough?  Considering that they're an integral part of the game design, how can they be improved?

I thought they were a cool aspect.  I'd say the starting pop should be larger, to allow people to have multiple decks easier( 1st move and 2nd move decks, for example).   I'm not sure how migrations could be changed, maybe they could be made to be more likely to be spirits of the colors of your main deck or something.
 
5) On what devices would you play SW?  Would you play on a a mobile device, or would you only play on a computer/laptop?  Is there any aspect of the game that can be changed to make you more likely to play on a mobile device?  Do you think the mobile version of the game should be run separately from the PC version?

I would play on a tablet or PC.  Don't think they should be separate though.

6) Keeping in mind that the game will never be pay to win, what kind of features would make you consider signing up for a membership?

  I really enjoyed the trading aspect of the game.  Definitely my favorite part.

[Xaxyx]

1) What did you enjoy most about the game?  What do you want to see remain the same as it was, no matter what?

I found the intricacies and complexities of deck building fascinating.  The wide variety of available boards / terrains was refreshing as well, as one never knew what sort of environment one would end up in -- requiring decks to be versatile.

2) What did you dislike about the game?  How can that be improved, so that it's more enjoyable to you in this version?

Losing cards as a result of losing games is beyond demoralizing; it's rage quit-inducing.  If this is to be a collectable card game, then it must not be possible for a player to lose their precious, hard-earned cards as a result of a loss.  Or, if this is a must-have feature for some portion of the population of players -- however large -- then an option must exist for there to be a league of players for whom this antiquated and punishing "ante" system does not apply.

3) How important to you were the Tournaments and League?  Did you ever participate in either or both of them?  If so, which ones and how often?  If not, why not?  How can they be improved?  What were the most and least enjoyable aspects of these features?

I did not participate in tournaments; I was a casual player.

4) If you were a member, how did you feel about migrations and events?  Did they happen too often or not enough?  Considering that they're an integral part of the game design, how can they be improved?

Migrations were rewards to players who played more often.  Thus, from the reverse perspective, they acted as a punishment to casual players: they got less cards.   As a result, casual players overall possessed weaker decks and less trade options as compared with players who played more consistently.  Migrations should occur periodically, not as a reward for having played frequently.

Migrations were also extremely easy to abuse.  I once purposely went out of my way to absolutely bury my rating by playing a trash deck over and over again versus anyone willing to play against me.  Suddenly, my migrations were absolutely fabulous.  I got all kinds of fun cards, cards I'd never previously even dreamed of owning.  Then, I slapped together a deck full of the disgustingly amazing cards that I'd acquired by this silly method, and began trouncing my way back up the ladder -- half the time sporting a rating that was absolutely no reflection whatsoever of my astounding deck packed full of godlike cards.

This is not a useful, sensible and reliable system.  This is absurdity.  Migrations should be periodic (once per day, etc) and equitable (one rare and two commons per migration, etc).  Trading should be restricted to only allow like for like -- that is, one rare for one rare; one common for one common.  This will at least somewhat prevent newer players from being ripped off for their better cards, as well as prevent collaboration that results in some abomination of a deck acquired by a single popular or influential player.

5) On what devices would you play SW?  Would you play on a a mobile device, or would you only play on a computer/laptop?  Is there any aspect of the game that can be changed to make you more likely to play on a mobile device?  Do you think the mobile version of the game should be run separately from the PC version?

I would likely only play on a PC, but I can see a mobile version being viable as well, such as for iPad.

6) Keeping in mind that the game will never be pay to win, what kind of features would make you consider signing up for a membership?

I am very happy to learn that the game will remain non-pay-to-win.  That's a very important feature.

Membership in a non-pay-to-win environment implies the granting of "frills".  What sorts of frills might be interesting in SpiritWars?  Extra deck slots comes to mind; this is more convenience than power, arguably.  Access to member-only leagues seems like a bad idea, as it will leave casual players out in the cold.  Cutesy cosmetic benefits -- your name shows up all glowy and stuff in games -- is a no-brainer, I suppose.  Perhaps spirits played by a membership player are animated on the board in some fashion, whereas non-members' spirits just sorta sit there.

[Biokemyst]

Hopefully, this is still alive. I played the free version of the game back in the days of WON.net. Introduced a couple of friends to it back then as well. I am curious as to whether there is any consideration of mobile version of the game?

[Vampira]

MOM...I'm with u all the way!

[Fozzy]

Can we please get this game back up and running for a mobile version?